italian restaurants in warwick, ri . Says He Will Sign Bill Criminalizing Drag as Old Photo of Him in Drag Circulates, Lori Lightfoot Loses Reelection for Chicago Mayor; Paul Vallas & Brandon Johnson Advance to Runoff, Reporter Seymour Hersh on How America Took Out the Nord Stream Pipeline: Exclusive TV Interview, A War of Imperial Aggression: How Russias Invasion One Year Ago Changed Ukraine & the World, El Salvadors Pres. KATHARINE GUN: I dont know. Im Amy Goodman, as we bring you Part 2 of our extended look at a new film thats out called Official Secrets, thats coming out at the end of August, that tells the story of a British intelligence specialist, Katharine Gun, who risked everything to blow the whistle on U.S. dirty tricks at the United Nations in the lead-up to the Iraq invasion in 2003. [13] Speculation was rife in the media that the prosecution service had bowed to political pressure to drop the case so that any such documents would remain secret. The online Drudge Report used the fact that the reproduced NSA memo used English spelling to cast doubt on its veracity. KATHARINE GUN: Yeah, and he had no money in his pocket. . Now, the defense of necessity is usually used in very more simple circumstances. How did she go about rebuilding her life? And whats so marvelous about what Gavins done is to just sort of bring this back into the present. Katharine Gun, at Bow Street Magistrates Court. She was arrested and charged with breach of the Official Secrets Act. KATHARINE GUN: No, she hasnt. We didnt talk about politics much. So, you are there standing alone in the dock. A very good book by Britains most decorated journalist, called Nick Davies, called Flat Earth Newsits about the British press, but it applies everywhererealized that actually the then-editors of our paper were effectively accountable to the Tony Blair enforcement machine. I had had my own story on the fabrication of the weapons of mass destruction, the existence of a shadow intelligence-cooking agency within the Pentagon, which we at The Observer had for five months before Sy Hersh, with great respect to Sy, published it in The New Yorker. He says, Wait a minute. And you had a showing in San Francisco. KATHARINE GUN: No, I felt a huge sense of relief after I had, you know, confessed. Gun is on Mondays episode of the Guardian podcast Today in Focus, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. In fact, Iyou know, I couldnt bear to watch the scenes. A full trial might have exposed any such documents to public scrutiny, as the defence was expected to argue that trying to stop an unlawful war of aggression outweighed Gun's obligations under the Official Secrets Act. That accountability is key. I mean, we had imagined all sorts of things about who our source might be. 0 Views how to get better graphics on fortnite pc. [3], Katharine Harwood moved to Taiwan in 1977 with her parents, Paul and Jan Harwood. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. And Mr. Ahmed is now the editorial director of the BBC, the revered BBC. The Tony Blair Conscience Fund or something? Ben Emmerson is. Copy may not be in its final form. Sometimes you break stories, and networks ring you and say they want to interview you, and then they drop you because of the agenda. does debt settlement affect security clearance. And at some point, with great respect to Lord Goldsmith, he caves. Katharine Teresa Gun, fdd Katharine Teresa Harwood 1974, r en brittisk lingvist och visselblsare. Indeed, your point about Bush is right. AMY GOODMAN: And then what happened? We still dont know who Frank Koza is, or hes still not given a public interview about about what went on. [5], Gun graduated with an upper second-class degree, then took a job as an assistant English teacher with the JET program in Hiroshima, Japan. You think everyone sees on your face that youre the leaker. what happened to katharine gun husband. And you said in places like Chile. There are almost no defenses to this act. I think of journalists as being bullet-proof in a way. And Mr.. AMY GOODMAN: The San Francisco Film Festival. KATHARINE GUN: Well, I mean, its terrifying. I had, you know, encounters with Blair. I think of journalists as being bullet-proof in a way, she says, but obviously not., She and Bright have done several question and answer sessions in the US after the film has been screened at various festivals. AMY GOODMAN: Youre watching that on television. And then I went on to interview Martin and Ed and then Ben Emmerson, the lawyer. June 21, 2022. White bread, white Trump, white, or this America, the one of every color, creed? You know, we dont have that. AMY GOODMAN: Whatever you tried to do didnt succeed. We can all have a view on Saddam Hussein and whether he should be deposed or not. So, I just lay that out, really. We rely on contributions from our viewers and listeners to do our work. Yasar Gun is the husband of a British whistleblower, Katharine Gun, who revealed top-secret information. And Jed called me up and said, Have you heard of Katharine Gun? And you get this moment where you feel like you should have, because of the way hes saying it. . Yes and no. In 2003, the British intelligence worker leaked a memo from the . You didnt know what would happen with this memo you leaked to someone, who gave it to someone, but you knew you felt it wasI mean, you werent part of a movement. I thought you said youre sick. And I said, I need to talk to you. And so we went into a small room, and I just said, I did it. And then she put her arm around me and went, Oh, Katharine. And then I burst out crying. AMY GOODMAN: So then you have Scotland Yard taking over. And, he says to me, she explained that Goldsmiths positionif I called for those documents, I would find out that he had been consistently saying that war without a U.N. resolution would be illegal. I mean, couldnt have been happier with the casting choice, because Ben Emmerson is a force of nature, absolute force of nature, and a great international lawyer. And Im saying, Ben, but how did you know, when you called for those documents, that theyd be there? And theres this pause. Dont just swallow what politicians tell you. GAVIN HOOD: Theres an outrage. But he certainly was suggesting that people would know. Shes pregnant. Youre, KATHARINE GUN: And then I was taken away. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. I mean, thisI dont want this to sound sanctimonious. The diplomats were due to vote on a second United Nations resolution on the prospective 2003 invasion of Iraq. There is no single answer to that, she says, but Bright had the best stab at it: The only thing you can do is do your job right, and be a good citizen., In other words, she says, whatever your job is, do the things that you are supposed to do. So, lots of leads there. AMY GOODMAN: So, theyre processing him. ED VULLIAMY: Its a story of endeavor, to no avail. Many wonder whether Guns young daughter has seen the film or been told of the importance of her mothers extraordinary actions. shakeology withdrawal symptoms is katharine gun still married to yasar. And through the lights, I couldnt quite see who the guy was. Keira Knightley as Katharine Gun in the film Official Secrets. [10] Her case became a cause clbre among activists, and many people stepped forward to urge the government to drop the case. Sam and Katharine Ross walked the red carpet before the ceremony. The memo was a top-secret request to monitor the private communication of UN delegates for scraps of information, personal or otherwise, that could be used to give the US an edge in leveraging support for the invasion. And I did this sort of dive. And yeah, it was, AMY GOODMAN: And what did you think, whenbefore you had seen Katharine and met her, what did you imagine she would be like, this young woman, 27-year-old woman of conscience, who. AMY GOODMAN: What did you think about your own prime minister? Katharine Gun's income source is mostly from being a successful . "[12] In May 2019 The Guardian stated the case was dropped "when the prosecution realised that evidence would emerge that even British government lawyers believed the invasion was unlawful. We, as a collective group of countries, decide that we need to stop an event, a humanitarian disaster or a genocide or whatever. And I justI just determined to deny it. You hardly told anybody what you had done. Katharine Gun. ED VULLIAMY: Yes. He didnt know I had leaked this memo. But, I mean, I ended up being a whistleblower myself within that organization. Just trying to figure out what to do next. AMY GOODMAN: They said you could have pled. Gun thinks she might speak out more considering the current state of political affairs and massive citizen involvement in sociopolitical issues. Few are aware that her husband had also been thrown into troubled waters when Gun blew the lid off the alleged spy efforts in 2003. Gun is not active on social media and occasionally participates in small-scale conferences and discussions pertaining to politics. Of course I did, yes. And I had to thank her forI mean, you know, in totally selfish terms, helping me break the biggest story of my life. So, of course, it was justyou know, he was kind of thinkinghe knew I worked for the intelligence services, but he didnt know what that was. The bedroom is the heart of any romantic relationship and no bedroom should be without sound. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. Sorry, no pun intended, Katharine. The day before the trial, Gun's defence team had asked the government for any records of legal advice about the lawfulness of the war that it had received during the run-up to the war. Something like. [12] At the time, the reasons for the Attorney-General to drop the case were murky. Pie de foto, Thats our job. Nobody knows if whistleblowing is nurture or nature. KATHARINE GUN: Well, OK, I know I was guilty in the facts of the matter. The film, Official Secrets, comes out officially at the end of August. And my husband was desperately worried about what was going on. is katharine gun still married to yasar. "[12], Two years after her trial, Gun wrote an article titled "Iran: Time to Leak",[22] which asked whistleblowers to make public any information about plans for a potential war against Iran. Good for him. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. It is vital to speak up in a democracy. I mean, thats why MartinI remember Martin and Ed. AMY GOODMAN: But what caused you to say no? If we found other information, it may have been different, but this information seemed to show us that wed been lied to. [4], After spending her childhood in Taiwan, where she attended Morrison Academy until the age of 16, Katharine returned to Britain to study for her A-levels at Moira House School, a girls' boarding school in Eastbourne. If the war was illegal and she broke the law in order to expose an illegal war and potentially save hundreds of thousands of lives, I can use this defense of necessitythats usually used in more mundane, dare I say, contextsin this great political trial., And so he says, All right, now I need to know whether the war was legal or illegal. And he says, I need to find out what Lord Goldsmiths, the attorney-generals, legal position was in the run-up to that war. So give us the nutthe nutshell description of this story. [20] After the charges against her were dropped in 2004, she found it difficult to find a new job. Our Daily Digest brings Democracy Now! AMY GOODMAN: Now, he goes in for a regular check-in. The trials and tribulations of daringly telling the truth and facing its consequences must certainly not be a light burden to bear. KATHARINE GUN: to police custody, yes, and kept overnight in a police cell. Yasur Gunnis is the husband of Katharine Gun a linguist who specializes in translating Mandarin Chinese into English. And we had to sit and wait for two hours while they winged it down from London. This is notthis fringe idea of the war has never ended since 1991, what nonsense. ", "US plan to bug Security Council: the text", "Let's free the Official Secrets Act from its cold war freeze | Alex Bailin", "Leaking or briefing? KATHARINE GUN: Mm-hmm. ED VULLIAMY: Well, he was the political editor at the time, who was giving me a lot of trouble over getting my cooked intelligence story into the paper. So, in the film, when the director of public prosecutions says to Ben Emmerson, trying to wiggle out of it, Listen, it wasnt my decision to prosecute. Thats actually true. Iraq now, nightmare. Starring Kiera Knightley, Matt Smith, Matthew Goode, and Ralph Fiennes in pivotal roles, the film is one of the more accurate cinematic explorations of real-life instances. After they charged me, thats when they tried to deport my husband. You were just waiting. AMY GOODMAN: Martin, you went on to work with Tony Blair, didnt you? In Turkey, close to her husbands family, Gun and her partner, Yasar, could raise their child in peace. I mean, no ones going tono crocodile tears over that. So, where is Gun now? And we worked five, six hours every day. British linguist, translator and whistleblower, This article is about the British whistleblower. Katharine Gun was a young specialist working for Britain's Government Communications Headquarters when she exposed a highly confidential memo that revealed the United States was working with. I mean, youre talking about the editorial leadership of The Observer, the editor-in-chief. You werent particularly worried. The movie tells the story of Katharine Gun (played by Keira Knightley), a translator with the U.K.'s GCHQ who, in 2003, leaked top secret documents to journalist Martin Bright (Matt Smith) that. The biggest story was: Who cares why were in the war? Authorities had attempted to deport Yasar back to the Middle East. We speak with a British whistleblower whose attempts to expose lies about the Iraq invasion was called "the most important and courageous leak" in history by acclaimed Pentagon Papers whistleblower. A morality tale for the 21st century, Official Secrets tells the true story of British Intelligence whistle-blower Katharine Gun who, during the immediate run-up to the 2003 Iraq invasion,. So I tried to look for work. AMY GOODMAN: Were going to leave it there, and I want to thank you all so much for being with us, Katharine Gun, the whistleblower; Observer journalists at the time, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, who is the director of Official Secrets, the story of Katharine Gun revealing the lies that led to the Iraq War on both sides of the ocean, in Britain and the United States, and led to so many deaths. [2] In 2003, she leaked top-secret information to The Observer, concerning a request by the United States for compromising intelligence on diplomats from member states of the 2003 Security Council. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I mean, the story doesnt end. But as we said last night, this is the purpose of Albert Camuss great story La Peste, when Dr. Rieux is given the child dying of plague. There are 15 members of that council, and there are these nonpermanent members who could swing the vote in favor of an invasion of Iraq in U.N. resolution. LED411IR1110cm6.7cm6.7cm(1 . And they said they would try their best. AMY GOODMAN: That was 2014. This is Democracy Now! Details at membership.theguardian.com. Nayib Bukele Touts Megaprison with Shocking Images of Shackled Detainees, Kenyan Writer: History Explains Why Much of Africa Chooses Neutrality Over Wests Support of Ukraine. I took up teaching. AMY GOODMAN: I mean, youre the guy who broke the story that showed that Britain was collaborating with the U.S. in trying to get dirt on U.S. ambassadors, AMY GOODMAN: to get them to vote for the war in Iraq, which ended up killingwhat do you say at the end of the film? This was all cooked up, unpublished and. AMY GOODMAN: Ed Vulliamy, you were the U.S. correspondent for The Observer. AMY GOODMAN: You mean period dramas of strong women have to be a hundred years ago. You come home. Her life story is depicted in the new film Official Secrets. In Part 2 of our discussion, we speak with Katharine Gun; the British journalists who reported on Guns revelations in The Observer newspaper, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, director of Official Secrets.. And I called Jed back, and I said, This is an amazing way into how we got into the Iraq War, thatwhy isnt it better known? And he saidI said, Could I come and meet Katharine? Katharine Teresa Gun (ne Harwood)[1] (born 1974) is a British linguist who worked as a translator for the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ). Oh, yeah. That was in this moment, moment by moment, as the story evolves, what would it feel like if you were in her shoes. They have one child. He knows he cant save the child. Iraq War Whistle Blower Katharine Gun Shares Her Story In 2003, Katharine Gun exposed a plot by U.S. security officials to spy on United Nations members as they ramped up pressure to secure a. You dont do you? Otherwise we are living in dictatorships. [5] After contemplating the email over the weekend, Gun gave the email to a friend who was acquainted with journalists. Hes repackaged himself as sort of the European. We do not accept funding from advertising, underwriting or government agencies. \!! ! Her net worth has been growing significantly in 2020-2021. That whole period undermined the judicial process, it undermined the parliamentary process, and it undermined the media and press and the intelligence service. We are all of us living, she believes, with the consequences of that. They may have chosen to push those boundaries, but they did know the difference, and they knew that it mattered if they were caught. is katharine gun still married to yasar And yeah, it was absolutely terrifying. The intensely relevant film is based on the true story of Katharine Gun, . There is a sense of, Did it really happen? Is that really me?. And so, but theres another irony about the position of the attorney general, which is, the director of public prosecutions in Britain generally has real autonomy in deciding what cases to prosecute, except in cases of the Official Secrets Act, when he or she must get the authorization of the attorney general to prosecute. And its sothe nonpermanent members, who realized they were being hacked and their personal things were beingin order to try and blackmail them into a vote. "[5], Gun's regular job at GCHQ in Cheltenham was to translate Mandarin Chinese into English. And they attempt to deport your husband, who is a? Did everything change? AMY GOODMAN: But so, did you have any conversations with the former prime minister at the time, Tony Blair? Shes out. But this is not the issue. KATHARINE GUN: And also, Im justwell, whether its natural inclination or whether its what was kind of drummed into us at GCHQ, but it was, you know, this the sense of being private and not trusting journalists or people who are trying to ferret out information from you. In 2003, she leaked top-secret information to The Observer, concerning a request by the United States for compromising intelligence on diplomats from member states of the 2003 Security Council.The diplomats were due to vote on a second United . So. is katharine gun still married to yasar . is katharine gun still married to yasar katharine gun real husband landsbron avstngd vind May 28, 2022. begagnat byggmaterial karlstad There are familiar spy-movie pleasures to be had, too - one secret rendezvous between Ridley and Bright in a subterranean car park has . AMY GOODMAN: And your feelings at that time, Katharine? The two first met in 1969 on the set of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid but didn't start dating until a decade later when they starred . Much of the news desk was opposed. Ralph Fiennes plays Ben Emmerson. And so he went to Elizabeth and had a cup of tea, as you do in England. Maybe there will be sympathy.. I mention those lines about working for the people rather than the government. One question that recurs, she says, comes from audience members asking what they should do, how they should behave, in the current mendacious political climate. But it was, yeah, a moment of great humility, actually. Yasur is a Turkish Kurd who is married to 47-year-old Katharine. After the incident, Katharine struggled to find work, and her husband had grown disillusioned with Britain and then kept away from the general public eye. My childhood friend, for example, I remember hearing her father was on a blacklist because he had been agitating for the opposition. Well, if Bush and Blair could have got a U.N. resolution, they would have had perfect cover for going to Iraq without having to bring up the WMD, the weapons of mass destruction, argument, because the whole weapons of mass destruction argument is the self-defense, that they needed a legalyou know, you do want to be going to war legally. I felt awful. Katharine Gun outside the Old Bailey after charges had been dropped against her, 2004. Guns words will, in the coming weeks finally receive the much wider audience they deserve. Before I was charged, before my name came out, my biggest worry was that I would become a known person. GAVIN HOOD: She did work for the attorney general, right up until a matter of weeks or so before the war, at which point, when he changed his mind, under massive pressure, having visited Washington and spoken to Gonzales and all the various lawyers who worked for Rumsfeld and Bush and Cheney, and theyd sold him on this idea of using Resolution 678, which authorized the 1991 Gulf War, and said, Really, that war didnt end, and were really still at war with Iraq. MARTIN BRIGHT: We didI tell you what, though, we did feel that we had failed. In its absence, Tony Blair won another election in 2005. I mean, my initial encounter with him at the Faith Foundation was extremely concerning, in fact, because he said that what he wanted me to do was develop a heat map, you know, an interactive map of all the madrassas, you know, Islamic schools, around the world, with my tiny team of two or three interns, showingand he looked me in the eye, and he said, I want you to be ableI want people who are looking on our website to be able to see how radical those madrassas are, by color coding.. Katharine Gun leaked that memo to the Observer, in the belief that the revelation of the proposed bugging and blackmail tactics might be enough to stop the war. Don't let 'the intelligence and the facts be fixed around the policy' this time. You know, banks of civil servants couldnt do that. Which agency was it? Gun was 28 in 2003 and had been working at GCHQ as a Mandarin Chinese linguist for only a couple of years, when she became alarmed at Blair's public statements supporting an invasion of Iraq by insisting that Saddam Hussein was hiding weapons of mass destruction. Shes beginning to understand the issues, but she hasnt seen it yet, Gun said in 2019 when her daughter was 11-years-old. Its so great to have you all with us. What was he telling Blair until the 11th hour, where he changed his mind, it seems, at the 11th hour, and said, 'Oh, well, you can justify on the basis of Resolution 678 from 1991,' this fringe idea that no decent international lawyerand Im an ex-lawyerbelieves to be even remotely sensible?. So, was that Frank Koza? But this gets out, and suddenly you see it on the front page of The Observer when you go to buy, what, milk in the morning for you and your husband. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I mean, around that time. And I had already not been able to eat for about 24 hours. ED VULLIAMY: said on the program, I filed that story seven times. [23] Daniel Ellsberg praised the swiftness and importance of Gun taking action, saying it was in some ways more significant than his own whistleblowing on the Vietnam War. I ask her first if it is gratifying to finally have it out there? And she hadnt said why she had resigned. I met her in August in Durham, when she was on a brief visit to see her father. And all of a sudden the news media is not interested in how we got into the war. So a very big story got crushed very quickly. So, of course, I was a little bit sort of reserved. AMY GOODMAN: And Alton went from The Observer and ultimately made his way, ED VULLIAMY: Via variousvia Rupert Murdochs Times, yes. I think the number isand forgive me, I should have the figurethree-and-a-half thousand British and American soldiers, 37,000 wounded. I wonder what she made of the scattershot download methods of Edward Snowden and Julian Assange? . Please do your part today. I mean, really, these people need to be held accountable for what theyve done. This is, sadly, a story of failure. Gun is a singular presence, and she answers with characteristic care, speaking slightly haltingly, weighing her words. I felt awful after I denied it. GAVIN HOOD: They failed. Almost a million Iraqis. And, you know, he had nothing on him. Ocho meses despus, fue acusada de violar la Ley de . Gun leaked the memo to the press in 2003, setting off a chain of events that jeopardized her freedom and safety, but also opened the door to putting the entire legality of the Iraq invasion on trial. I was calling Nigel Jones, my MP. And she said, Gavin, I dont want to wear makeup. I could not get it in. But to discover that it was such a young and such a junior employee was extraordinary to us, yeah. Shes beginning to understand the issues, but she hasnt seen it yet. Official Secrets is a 2019 British drama film based on the case of whistleblower Katharine Gun, who leaked a memo exposing an illegal spying operation by American and British intelligence services to gauge sentiment of and potentially blackmail United Nations diplomats tasked to vote on a resolution regarding the 2003 invasion of Iraq. You know, lets say Iyoure a bit of a gambler, arent you? Iraq war whistleblower Katharine Gun: Truth always matters. The original content of this program is licensed under a. is katharine gun still married to yasar andrea bocelli daughter bad things about athens back then. AMY GOODMAN: And this is a critical moment, when you say October, because thats when the U.S. Senate voted to authorize war. They said, Plead out., AMY GOODMAN: We dont want you to go to jail for years. I was teaching Mandarin in the local college in Cheltenham. is katharine gun still married to yasarvpower777 referral code. Following the incident, Gun struggled to find work that she loved, and her husband had grown disillusioned with Britain. And a fireman does that if he bashes your house down to get to you. You cannot talk to anyone about your intelligence work. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I must say, when I found out how young she was, it did take me by surprise, and the fact that she was a translator. Does she tell her story when she meets new people? AMY GOODMAN: And did they say they were going to charge you with the Official Secrets Act? We speak with a British whistleblower whose attempts to expose lies about the Iraq invasion was called the most important and courageous leak in history by acclaimed Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg. And the memo was like this big red flag as soon as I saw it.. Jun 21, 2022 . In January that year, Katharine Gun was copied into a classified memo sent to GCHQ by a senior figure in the NSA, its US equivalent. Gun was outraged by the email, and took a printed copy of it home with her. The Observer published the dirty tricks memo as a front-page splash just over two weeks before the invasion. So I was bailed until November, when they charged me. In April 2020, Gun was set to appear as a speaker at the 14th edition of the International Journalism Festival, but the event was canceled in February of the same year due to COVID-19. That is a difficult question, she says. Whatever you think of Kamala Harris, you can say, Which America do you want? Together they have a 13-year-old daughter. I ended up, bizarrely, teaching a couple of my former colleagues at GCHQ. "[15], In September 2019 Ken Macdonald, the former director of public prosecutions, said the case against Gun was not dropped in order to stop the Attorney General's advice on the legality of the Iraq War from being revealed. AMY GOODMAN: And when did that come out? How often does she go through that fateful weekend, where she wrestled with her conscience after seeing the memo? Katharine Teresa Gun (ne Harwood) (born 1974) is a British linguist who worked as a translator for the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ). KATHARINE GUN: So, on Wednesday morning, I called in sick. Watching the film was like watching a case that was very similar to my own: Katharine Gun, photographed last month in Durham. Among them were Reverend Jesse Jackson, Daniel Ellsberg (the US government official who leaked the Pentagon Papers), and Congressman Dennis Kucinich. Is that when you both met? I grew up in Taiwan, which was a military dictatorship. Before I knew it, I had spent two hours researching Katharine. But anyway. She was 27. I felt that I had done the morally right thing to do. Although Katharine herself publicly appears in front of the whole world, she has only disclosed limited information about . [12] The Guardian newspaper had reported plans to drop the case the previous week. We sat in the bar of a city centre hotel, and talked about the ancient history of 2003. Most people do. is katharine gun still married to yasar. KATHARINE GUN: Oh, yeah. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. And when he didnt come out, I was panicking, you know, and I ran inside.